Centering Identity in Education With Kwame Sarfo-Mensah

Leave a Comment / Anti-racism, Biases, Culturally Responsive, Freedom Dreaming, K-12 Education, Parenting, Podcast, Teaching

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This week on Conscious Pathways, Brittney Carey welcomes Kwame Sarfo-Mensah, founder of Identity Talk Consulting and author of Learning to Relearn: Supporting Identity in a Culturally Affirming Classroom. Kwame shares his journey from aspiring athlete to award-winning educator, offering practical strategies for centering student identity in classrooms and creating inclusive, culturally affirming educational spaces.

Key Takeaways:

  • The role of identity in supporting student well-being.
  • How to incorporate anti-bias, anti-racist practices as a mindset, not a task.
  • The power of reflective practice for educators.
  • Empowering students to engage in conversations about culture and justice.

The episode concludes with Kwame’s inspiring vision for an education system where students have real decision-making power.

Resources Mentioned:

Connect with Kwame:


Don’t forget to subscribe to the Conscious Pathways podcast for more conversations about reimagining education.

Transcript:

Introduction to Conscious Pathways

[00:00:00] Brittney Carey (She/Her): Imagine walking into a classroom where every student feels seen valued, celebrated for who they are. Not just as learners, but as individuals with rich complex identities. It sounds like a dream, right? Well today, we’re diving into how to make that dream a reality. Welcome to conscious pathways. I’m your host, Brittney Carey.

[00:00:21] And this is the podcast all about the intersection of education and social justice. Helping parents, the teachers create spaces where kids can actually thrive.

[00:00:29] Today.

Meet Kwame Sarfo-Mensah

[00:00:30] Brittney Carey (She/Her): I am thrilled to be joined by Kwame Sarfo-Mensah.

[00:00:33] Founder of identity talk, consulting, and author of learning to relearn supporting identity in a culturally affirming classroom. Quality is a nationally recognized speaker consultant. Advocate who has dedicated his career to empowering teachers and amplifying voices of students of color. In this episode, we’ll uncover how centering student identity can transform classrooms, build bridges between home and school. And support the overall wellbeing of children.

[00:01:01] So whether you’re a parent, a teacher educational leader, this conversation is packed with insights and actionable steps to bring culturally relevant practices into your work.

[00:01:11] Before we get started. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts, leave a rating review for conscious pathways, it really does help the show to grow and meet more listeners, just like you. I’m on a road to reach 1000 subscribers on YouTube.

[00:01:25] Every new friend counts.

[00:01:26] Don’t forget to hit that subscribe button. So you never miss a new episode of conscious pathways.

[00:01:31] Are you ready to reimagine education? Let’s jump into it.

[00:01:34] Hi, and welcome to Conscious Pathways. Today, I am joined by Kwame. Thank you for joining me.

[00:01:40] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : Thank you for having me, Brittney It’s an honor to be here.

[00:01:43] Brittney Carey (She/Her): It’s an honor to have you. You have such a great background and list, and I’m so excited to get into all the beautiful things that you do and have done.

Kwame’s Journey into Education

[00:01:51] Brittney Carey (She/Her): To kick us off, can you tell me a little bit about how you got your start in education?

[00:01:55] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : So I didn’t start off wanting to be a teacher. I wanted to get into sports. I wanted to be in the NBA, the NFL, major league baseball. That was my thing. But then when I got to high school and I realized when you’re 5’10 and you’re weighing a wet 160 pounds, you’re not going to get a lot of D1 scholarships.

[00:02:17] at that point, I decided to pivot to a different career path. But even at that point, it wasn’t education. I just went into mathematics because that’s what I was good at. So I actually majored in math at Temple University during my undergrad years. And it was during my freshman year when I was walking on campus and I bumped into an upperclassman.

[00:02:42] Her name was Tamara Anderson. Now she’s Tamara Brown because she’s married. at that time, she was running a mentoring program at her dorm and she asked me, Hey, would you want to be a part of this? Because she needed some volunteers to come and mentor some young people.

[00:03:01] So I said, all right, cool. Let’s do it. I didn’t have anything better to do. Had a mentee who was an eighth grader. His name was Timothy Gale, and he was an eighth grader in a school district, Philadelphia, one of the schools, and we hit it off tremendously.

[00:03:18] And it was at that time where. I caught that first bug of wanting to work with kids. So that was freshman year. So then my sophomore year, I got a work study job at the local YMCA where I was a afterschool tutor and I started to go there two, three times a week to work with kids on homework and help them out with anything that they were dealing with the school.

[00:03:47] And I really started to learn about the culture of Philly, but also learn about the inequities that a lot of black and brown kids experience when they are in school. that was my first introduction to that, over time, I stayed with that YMCA, started to work there as a direct staff member.

[00:04:10] I went to school with a camp counselor during the summer camp periods and did that all the way through till graduation. And when I got my degree, I know I wanted to work with kids, but I also knew that I was pretty good at math. So how can I marry those two together? And it just made sense to become a math teacher.

[00:04:34] that was what led me to want to teach because I knew that, for one, there were very few black male teachers, and that’s still the case even today, in schools. I wanted to be an exemplar for black and brown kids to know that, hey, you don’t need to go into athletics or entertainment.

[00:04:57] You could still be a superstar. And be in front of the classroom, inspiring people in that way. So that was really my initial motivation for wanting to do the work. you fast forward to 17 years later, I’m still doing this work. And it’s been amazing. During my time, I was a middle school math teacher.

[00:05:19] for 10 years. I know you work with the little ones. In early childhood. I love the little ones, but that just was not

[00:05:26] When I was in the classroom. I like my big kids. I know they’re a little

[00:05:31] Out there and they got their personalities, but it’s an acquired taste.

[00:05:36] People have acquired taste, right? You know this.

[00:05:39] Brittney Carey (She/Her): as soon as you said, yeah, I majored in math. I was like, mm mm. you Couldn’t, couldn’t be me.

[00:05:45] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : Nah.

[00:05:45] Brittney Carey (She/Her): Me and math, we’re not friends. We don’t get along. math stays over there.

[00:05:50] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : yeah,

[00:05:52] Brittney Carey (She/Her): Every time I hear that someone teaches middle school, not only do you teach middle school, but also math.

[00:05:57] Those two things. I’m like, you are, you’re an incredible

[00:06:01] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : Oh,

[00:06:02] It’s definitely

[00:06:03] Brittney Carey (She/Her): yes. Itit takes a special soul to teach both of those things. And especially thinking about middle schoolers and they already probably don’t want to be there. And you’re teaching them math and probably most of them don’t want to learn math.

[00:06:14] So you’re already fighting an uphill battle

[00:06:16] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : That’s usually, the case more times than not. But then by the time we get to June, I had won them over. It always works out that way. I’m pretty good at what I do.

[00:06:29] Brittney Carey (She/Her): I believe it.

Transition to Consulting and Professional Development

[00:06:31] Brittney Carey (She/Her): Actually, I think that’s a pretty beautiful segue, because I know you’ve been in the classroom for years upon years, and you’ve made a bit of a shift, too, in the work that you do. So you do some consulting and professional development. can you tell me a little bit about that work that you do.

[00:06:45] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : So when I decided to go into consulting, I was still a full time teacher, doing middle school math. And I think at that time, it was really more about just create a new path for myself because I had been teaching full time as a lead teacher for about nine years I had gained a lot of experience.

[00:07:09] I learned lessons from. Some of my mentors and I wanted to find a way to share that information to other people who are coming down the pipeline who look like me and want to have success So I wrote a book called shape of the teacher identity, a lesson that helped define the teacher and you.

[00:07:30] This is my first book. I did that back in 2018. This was a book that pretty much shared a lot of information and it was meant for early career teachers because I felt like when I started I didn’t get that kind of tutelage and I didn’t have those tools necessary to get through that first year.

[00:07:52] I wanted to make sure that other people who are coming down the pipeline were able to get these tools. The book turned out to be. An intriguing read for enough people, so much so that people suggested, Hey, you should do workshops based around what you wrote in this book. So it started off as a lot of pro bono workshops in neighboring school districts outside of the one I was in.

[00:08:19] And that meant me taking a few sick days here and there just to get this work in and get my name out there. and that’s how it started. I did that for about four or five months after I published the first book. And right before the end of the school year, 2019, I made it official as an LLC. the name of my company is identity talk consulting, a global education consulting firm that focuses on three pillars.

[00:08:49] we talk about anti bias and anti racist practices. identity affirming education. And culturally responsive practices in our schools. I do workshops with teachers and faculty members. And I also do workshops with students Because, Selfishly, that’s the best part of the job

[00:09:11] Is being with the students. And that’s the part that I miss more than anything. Since making the transition out of the classroom.

[00:09:17] Brittney Carey (She/Her): I definitely feel that I have been missing being in the classroom with students. The longer that you’re outside of the classroom while you’re like,I miss the kids. I miss the day to day. Then you’re in it long enough and you’re like, I’m tired of this.

[00:09:31] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : Yep.

[00:09:32] Brittney Carey (She/Her): It’s the flip flop, so I feel like I take a break from education and I come back and I’m revitalized. I’m refreshed. I’m like, wow, this is amazing. Why did I ever leave? A couple of years later, I’m like, okay, I’m ready to do something else for a little bit now.

[00:09:44] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : Yeah. And you’ve had that feeling. I’ve had that feeling. There are times where you have those moments of nostalgia and then you’re like, I want to go back. And then there is something that reminds you of why you left in the first place. I think I’m good. I’m gonna stay on this side.

[00:10:03] Yeah. I like where I am right now. Exactly.

[00:10:08] Brittney Carey (She/Her): There’s such beauty and magic in teaching and being in the classroom and, there’s those everyday moments that just feel amazing and great. But it does take wear and tear on your body mind and soul sometimes. so I always say it’s a good idea to take a break.

[00:10:22] you can always come back. I don’t see a world where education is going to. go away completely it will be there in some capacity.

Culturally Responsive and Anti-Bias Practices

[00:10:28] Brittney Carey (She/Her): But circling back to those three pillars you mentioned anti racism, anti bias, and culturally responsive and culturally affirming practices.

[00:10:36] I know that’s, been a topic that we’ve been talking about a lot, especially on the podcast and in education. But can you tell me more about these practices and what they look like in the classroom?

[00:10:46] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : so if you’re familiar with the work of Dr. Geneva Gay, who talks about culturally responsive teaching, then you know where I’m coming from. And if you want to go back further to culturally relevant pedagogy with the OG, Dr. Gloria Ladson Billings they talk about the importance of using students culture as a way to inform your practices as a teacher, whether we’re talking how you manage behavior, how you interact with students, but also how you make decisions on curriculum and even your instructional practice.

[00:11:21] Now, we start to get into anti bias and anti racist practice. we’re focusing on intersectionality and identity. we’re talking about Dr. Kimberly Crenshaw’s work with intersectionality and how she first introduced it to describe the double discrimination that black women experience because they’re being black.

[00:11:44] Because they’re black, but they’re also women. So we’re talking about the racism and the sexism. Now, her work has expanded into the education realm, where we’re starting to talk about how intersectionality is something that we should all be accounting for when making decisions in our curricula. a perfect example would be auditing books.

[00:12:07] So we’ve had a lot of books being banned within our country. And a lot of those books are culturally affirming. There are books featuring protagonists that may be from the LGBTQIA plus community. There may be protagonists or main characters who are black and Brown, indigenous Asian American or Pacific Islander.

[00:12:32] Those are the books being targeted. And censored from our curricular plans and schools. we’re trying to create spaces of belonging for all students. Think about if you’re a parent, You are accounting for what your children like, who they are, their identities. And you’re making decisions based on who your children are. All we’re asking is that you do the same with students who may not be your blood, but you’re spending nine to ten hours a day with. Those

[00:13:08] They come from certain backgrounds or certain homes where they follow certain culture. They may follow a certain faith and practice it. They may speak a particular language that connects them with their loved ones that may be different from what you speak. Who may come from a specific ethnicity that upholds certain traditions that are relevant to who they are.

[00:13:35] N. R. Connected to how they feel. All these things are important when you’re doing inventory on your students. We talked about learning inventory surveys and began a school year. We talked about interest surveys. Oh, what do you like? What’s your favorite TV show? What’s this? What’s that? As you’re doing those things, you also want to do some deeper conversations that touch on some of those things I’ve mentioned.

[00:14:04] Because these are the type of things that are going to strengthen your relations with students. And also when they see that you care about this stuff. Then they’re going to want to do more for you and they respect you even more. So now you’re minimizing Negative and undesirable behaviors from students.

[00:14:25] You don’t have to redirect them as much because. They’re already invested. They’re sold on who you are because you’re already sold on who they are as humans. And that’s how it should be in every classroom.

[00:14:38] Brittney Carey (She/Her): Yes.

[00:14:39] And I see that too in early childhood as well, You’re actually putting that onus, building a community, So it’s not just, I built the beautiful classroom. It looks beautiful. It’s how are you cultivating community? How are we incorporating the families that are a part of this community?

[00:14:57] And what do they celebrate? What are they like? when I do trainings with early childhood educators as well, we constantly are always focusing on those more kind of visible traits of culture that you can see, like what, foods do you eat? What music do you listen to?

[00:15:12] What, holidays do you celebrate? all very important aspects of our culture, The way we celebrate, the language we use, all very important, but there’s also these other deeply rooted parts of our culture that are integral to how we show up every day, that you don’t get unless you’re asking questions.

[00:15:28] you don’t get that deep, culturally rich information unless you’re Genuinely showing an interest in the families and the students in your classroom. And when you start showing that interest like you said, you’re getting that buy in. Once they know that you genuinely care about this information, you’re not going to use it against them.

[00:15:44] You’re not going to, just ask them all this information and then never do anything with it. I generally want you to be a part of our community and how can we make this better? What are you looking for? What do you need? What’s important to you? the more we ask those questions and get to the heart and the root of that cultural thing, it does make the classroom so much more rich.

[00:16:00] And even if you have a classroom that is, Very homogenous. Everyone benefits when we talk about culture. Everyone benefits when we talk about what’s important to us and the things going on at home and how things differ between person to person. Everyone benefits from that. It’s not just one person benefiting from it.

[00:16:17] It’s the whole classroom community gets to see the richness of culture and see how the world gets to shape around them. It’s a very beautiful experience once we do those things. thingteachers have a lot going on.

[00:16:32] So how do we incorporate these types of practices without it feeling like an extra task,

[00:16:40] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : but I think we have to reframe that these aren’t task. That’s the problem. We look at these practices as task when really these should be living parts of your classroom culture. It’s a mindset that we should develop. Just like when we talk about restorative practices, it’s not a toolkit.

[00:17:03] Being restorative is a mindset. Being restorative is a commitment to ensuring that there is peace respect and dignity within your classroom in all aspects. that’s not something that requires you to pull out something from a toolkit. That’s something that you embody as a human. And I would say the same for all the other thing we’ve mentioned, whether we’re talking about anti bias, anti racist practice, culture, responsive teaching identity, affirming practices.

[00:17:38] It’s all a mindset. In the simplest form, it’s really about what can I do in my classroom to ensure that every single student, regardless of where they come from, regardless of what they bring to the table, they feel welcomed. They feel honored. They feel like stars.

[00:18:04] How do I make sure that every kid is welcomed and they feel at home? That is the goal every single year. when I asked that question, I didn’t make one mention about race. gender or sexual orientation. I just simply said, what can we do within our classrooms to ensure that every student feels honored, welcomed and affirmed?

[00:18:31] Regardless of who they are, that should be the question we ask ourselves at the beginning of each year. And then the next question is, what can I do to ensure that I sustain this culture from September or August? all the way through to May or June, whenever your school year ends, what can I do to sustain this so that we can keep this momentum going?

[00:18:57] This positive momentum.

[00:18:58] Brittney Carey (She/Her): Yes. I love that you mentioned it being a mindset,

[00:19:02] when we think of these practices as another task, another thing, another additional ask that someone is having us do on top of the myriad of things as educators that we have to do inside and outside the classroom, then yeah, it does feel daunting.

[00:19:15] It feels it’s another thing I have to do. But when we take it as a mindset shift, It’s a thing that we are actually embodying in our classroom.

[00:19:23] It is a thing that we are embodying as a community together as an entire school community. That it’s not just a tool that I could pick up and use sometimes and then put it away until it gets dusty in the corner, that this is actually an essence of my being, an essence of the way that I exist, an essence of the way that our students exist, right?

[00:19:41] Just as, I don’t show up in my classroom as a blank, empty slate. I don’t just shed my culture. Right as I, enter the classroom, you’re like, Oh, I’m gonna leave that outside. that’s not the way I show up. That’s not the way most people show up. That’s not the way our students show up. They show up as their whole authentic selves. it is our role as the educators and the adults and the parents, who are working with students and children to make sure that we are honoring. The wholeness of the way that they are authentically in the way that they show up, and that we’re not trying to, dim their fire in any waywe want their fire to shine, we want them to be individuals, we want them to be a part of our community, and the best way that we can do that is by our own practices and looking at ourselves.

The Importance of Reflection in Education

[00:20:19] Brittney Carey (She/Her): That kind of goes into that anti bias, a whole lot to me with anti bias is reflection and looking at my own self my thoughts, my opinions, my judgments. I need to get really clear about where I’m coming from before I can start implementing these things in the classroom, right?

[00:20:35] If I’m trying to implement anti racist practices in my classroom, but I myself am walking around full of bias, We’re going to have issues

[00:20:44] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : Yeah,

[00:20:45] Brittney Carey (She/Her): not saying that bias is inherently wrong, Everyone has bias. We’re human beings, it’s developmental. It’s what we’ve developed to do.

[00:20:51] But unless I am very clear and honest with myself about the biases that I have and I’m actively working on and actively reflecting, like having a reflective practice is such an important aspect of this work that you can’t do this work without being reflective on your practices and reflective on you.

[00:21:08] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : That’s number one. And as you’re mentioning the importance of reflectionin my newest book. Learn to relearn support identity, a culture from a classroom.

Unpacking Biases and Stereotypes

[00:21:20] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : I have a chapter focused on that very thing. It’s called start to work with you.

[00:21:25] That’s chapter six. And what it’s about is, okay, where are the biases and stereotypical notions that hold of different communities that are different from who I am, right? And how do those thoughts and perspectives inform the way that I view the world, inform the way that I interact with different students, inform the way that I approach curriculum?

[00:21:52] And even inform some of the policies that we uphold within our schools. So really doing a full audit and also looking back at our own childhood experiences and seeing how some of those moments in our upbringing inform the way that we look at other people who are different from us.

[00:22:13] And what I’ve come to realize is that many people should go to therapy in order to unpack some of these biases that they hold about certain people. Because more times than not, it ties to some kind of traumatic experience or it may tie to a moment where they heard a family member say something derogatory about a particular group of people.

[00:22:40] And because you’re young, you just took it at face value. You just stayed in that echo chamber because that was the rhetoric around you. And that tends to happen quite a bit, not just in the United States, but even other parts of the globe where we get stuck in these echo chambers and we believe what people say.

[00:23:01] As opposed to looking past what people are saying and coming to our own conclusions and perspectives about what these things are. And that’s more of the spirit that I want people to inherit, especially when they read the book what can I do to get past some of those echo chambers in order to have original thoughts.

[00:23:24] About these very. Complicated and nuanced issues that we talk about when it comes to identity.

[00:23:30] Brittney Carey (She/Her): Yeah.

The Role of Therapy and Community

[00:23:31] Brittney Carey (She/Her): And that’s a beautiful suggestion to look into therapy, look into community, because it’s hard.

[00:23:37] and next to impossible to do this work alone, to do this work in a silo, If you don’t have a community of people who are, one, holding you accountable for what you’re doing, You say you want to do right and holding you accountable for that.

[00:23:49] But also it’s hard to get other thoughts and opinions and it’s hard to really synthesize this information and to really understand, where does this bias stem from? It’s hard to do that work on your own. And having someone else who is a supportive person alongside you with you doing that, whether that’s a therapist, whether that’s a community, looking at how can I find support in this, because it’s hard work.

[00:24:12] It is hard work. I’ve done my own work on my own biases. And this is not easy. No, we’re not by any means saying this is a walk in the park that you’re just gonna, wake up one day and be like, Oh, I decided to be anti bias today. So we’re good. No, it’s got work, you got to break down some walls, you got to break down some really tough patterns of thought, right?

[00:24:33] And for most of us, this isn’t something that we’ve been taught or have been learning since we were kids, That’s something in my field of work that I seek to change, Introducing these topics to children early So they don’t have to do this when they’re 30 years old.

[00:24:46] But most of us weren’t given those tools and weren’t taught these things and weren’t given the resources to understand how, bias and systemic racism and injustice and inequity, we weren’t really given the tools to understand these things. And so having someone in your corner as you’re doing that work is so, so, so

Learning to Relearn: A Personal Journey

[00:25:04] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : I actually have a question for you, but I also want to add on to what you mentioned, because the name of the book is Learning to Relearn. It’s called Learning to Relearn for a reason, because that was the very process I had to go through to get this book done. I’m sitting here as a cis, hetero, black male.

[00:25:24] talking about other communities that I’m not a part of. I’m talking about indigenous and native people. I’m talking about Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. I’m talking about Latinx people throughout all parts of the diaspora. I’m talking about black folks. I’m talking about people who are queer, who are trans.

[00:25:44] I’m talking about people who have intellectual disabilities. I can’t be the spokesperson for all these different Communities. There’s no way that can be that. So I have to check my biases. I had to be called in several times throughout this process in order to get the story right. if it wasn’t for the sensitivity reads, if it wasn’t for the peer reviews, if it wasn’t for the trusted counsel from different colleagues of mine and friends who are from these different communities I speak of.

[00:26:19] This book will not get to the finish line because there’s so much diversity within those communities. it’s not just diversity in their phenotypes or physical appearance or the language. I’m talking about diversity in thought people think because you’re from this community you all think the same but the reality is there’s a spectrum of thoughts.

[00:26:45] you have to account for that when you are talking about different stories, but also you are bringing up specific terms or language that you want people to learn some people don’t embrace those terms in the same way that others do. And that’s going to a deeper conversation. But my question for you, Brittney, is as someone that taught.

Teaching Anti-Bias to Young Children

[00:27:11] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : Kindergartners, preschool kids, early childhood students. So often we hear teachers in that space say, these are kids who are four five, six years old. How can we possibly talk about anti bias, anti racist issues when they’re this young?

[00:27:28] So what would you say to teachers who say that?

[00:27:30] Brittney Carey (She/Her): Yeah, and I hear that a lot. I do hear that sentiment a lot that we should just, there’s so little, these topics are so big, let them be kids and they can worry about that?

[00:27:41] when they get older. But the thing is that misses so much of how young children actually learn the bulk of their early learning, they are looking around them.

[00:27:51] They want to know how their world works. They want to know about the people they see. They want to know about the sounds they hear. They want to learn these different things. if you’ve ever had a conversation. With a young child, even as young as two to three years old, they’re asking questions, they’re curious, they’re asking, why does so and where’s so and so’s dad, they might see two moms drop off like where’s their dad? And that could be a simple innocuous question. And you might just blow it off like that, whatever, they’re just, being inappropriate. But No.

[00:28:20] they’re observing that usually I see people who have a mom and a dad in my community, right?

[00:28:26] I haven’t seen their dad.

[00:28:27] Where is their dad? They’re curious about that. And that opens the door to have conversations, right? We don’t have to go deep into, Oh, this is what homosexuality means, son, right? But they’re asking questions about how the world works and that’s a great opening way of saying, You know what?

[00:28:41] Sometimes families look different and we could talk about how families look different. Sometimes families have one mommy. Sometimes they have one daddy. Sometimes they have two daddies. Sometimes they don’t have a mommy or daddy. Sometimes they just have a grandma or an auntie or an uncle, right? those are just ways that we open the door for conversations that they can start to understand and the older they get, you’ll start to see that when you involve children in these questions about social justice and justice in general,

[00:29:05] If they’re seeing in their community that there’s a lot of homeless people, they might have questions about that. And again, we could say, Oh, they’re too young to understand, social inequity and, the economy And they don’t need to know those, finite tiny details.

[00:29:18] But they do have ideas. They do have questions. And if you involve them in those conversations about some people don’t have a home, why do you think that is? Or what we could do about that? They’ll have ideas. They can be involved in that And you could turn that into an entire social studies conversation, right?

[00:29:34] That could be part of your curriculum we’re thinking about People who don’t have homes people who don’t have beds to sleep in and now they’re starting to think about these things in deeper And more philosophical ways, It’s all about introducing these social justice pedagogies and conversations to them, we don’t have to talk about these really intense conversations like school shootings and things like that.

[00:29:55] we can introduce topics to them that they’re already curious about in ways that is developmentally appropriate in ways that involves them in that, right? Because if we don’t talk about it at all, now they’re going to be, in later adolescence hood.

[00:30:09] And when you start thinking about their brains developing your brain gets to about its full size by the time you’re five

[00:30:14] years old.

[00:30:15] a lot of the things like children’s thinking is so black and white. unless we are actively incorporating ideas and helping them to understand bias, by the time they’re five years old, they’ve already have bias that is ingrained into their brains and the way they think.

[00:30:29] And so it’s going to take much more work at that point to break down those thought process that have already been ingrained in their heads. When we could do that as a kid, we could introduce them to these thoughts and ideas and questions and you don’t have to have all of the answers. I think people sometimes go into this work thinking I have to know everything and I don’t know everything.

[00:30:49] You don’t have to know everything. One of the most beautiful things you can say to a child is, you know what, I don’t know enough about that. Let’s go look it up together. Now we’re learning about something together and that’s exciting. it’s an opportunity for us to grow as a community and to build a culture of, being passionate about each other and being curious about each other.

[00:31:08] We can do that in early childhood. It’s the most perfect time. There’s no better time to do that than in early

[00:31:14] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : Yeah.

[00:31:15] Brittney Carey (She/Her): I’m glad you mentioned that because this is why.

The Power of Children’s Books

[00:31:19] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : We need to pay attention to these book bands because the best access points for young children, particularly early childhood children, are children’s books. You want to broach conversations about these very complex issues. Children’s books can do that for you in a way that’s developmentally appropriate.

[00:31:37] Do you know what, do you know what one of my favorite son’s books is? Entangle Makes Three. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with Entangle Makes Three.

[00:31:49] Brittney Carey (She/Her): no, I’m not

[00:31:49] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : So Entangled Makes Three is a children’s book that focuses on two male penguins who are very close to each other, in love with each other, and they end up having a child.

[00:32:08] it’s a story that talks about the importance of looking at Different families. They’re outside what we consider the traditional family. And we’re talking about two male penguins, but we’re not mentioning homosexuality. We’re just talking about two male penguins that have a deep affection for each other and are caring for another baby penguin.

[00:32:35] That’s the story. And that’s a way for them to see that, hey, Not every family has a mommy and a daddy. So we’re breaking that binary thinking just through the access of a children’s book. now,

[00:32:49] the other thing I want to mention is the questions. We want the questions because indoctrination is a term that gets thrown out there.

[00:32:58] everybody wants to co opt it and say that everything’s indoctrination. But The fact that we’re born into a society that’s informed by white dominant culture is indoctrination in itself. The very traditions and the customs that we consider to be the norm that we consider to be acceptable in society is a form of indoctrination.

[00:33:23] The fact that we whitewash the history of Black and brown communities is a form of indoctrination. But yet when we’re trying to do the antithesis of that, which is to bring about culturally affirming and identity affirming curriculum that speaks to the invisibilized communities, then all of a sudden we’re indoctrinating.

[00:33:48] the reason why the questions are important is because that allows for students to start to build their own agency. we also need to be able to communicate with our peers and our students. we’re encouraging them to engage with their community around these topics. We’re encouraging them to do their own research and not just listen to what we have to say.

[00:34:00] So there’s value in being able to say I don’t know. that indirectly lets them know that, I’m going to find out and come back with an answer And now we can have that learning moment together as a classroom community. We need more inquiry based.

[00:34:17] Thinking Let’s interrogate what’s around us. Let’s be more inquisitive. Like you mentioned, let’s be more curious about things that happen around us because kids know when something seems off. usually they pose a question. because they know that what they’re seeing doesn’t quite align to what should be happening at that moment.

[00:34:44] We need to honor that. We need to

[00:34:47] Brittney Carey (She/Her): We need to

[00:34:47] honor that. Diversity already exists in the world, right? So we’re actually doing a disservice by not talking about it and not bringing it up. I always think back to this one conversation I was having with a parent and her son was in an inclusion school. So there were, kids with Down syndrome and autism. And they’re all in the same classroom together with neurotypical children. And she was talking about the program. She was like, yeah, it’s so great. My son doesn’t even know that his friends are autistic. Isn’t that amazing? And I’m like, no, Right?

[00:35:20] That’s a part of the way this child exists in their everyday life. They’re not going to wake up tomorrow and not be autistic. A child with Down syndrome is not going to wake up tomorrow and not have Down syndrome. There’s nothing wrong with that, right? That’s just the way that they exist. And so we’re not talking about these things in the classroom.

[00:35:34] We’re not elevating the beautiful richness of the diversity in our classroom, the way that our perspectives are different, the way we think are different, our families are different. If we don’t do that, and we just say, we just don’t talk about that, right? It doesn’t make them not exist.

[00:35:49] It just makes them exist quietly, right? And that’s not a society I want to live in. Where my identity needs to be quieted to make other people feel more comfortable around me. And I know that’s not a world or a society that most people want to live in either. And that’s the beautiful thing about incorporating these practices into our everyday.

[00:36:09] Having it be something that we work through as a community and as a society because there’s beauty in that. And so That leads me to my next. question for you, which is How

Reimagining Education

[00:36:18] Brittney Carey (She/Her): do you reimagine education?

[00:36:20] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : do I reimagine it? So this is the freedom dream. This is the radical dream right

[00:36:26] here.

[00:36:27] And we both in black. I love it.

[00:36:29] How do I reimagine it? I see an education system that generally allows for students to have real input on decisions that are made on their behalves. I see an education system that’s that distances itself from paternalism and allows for students To be co curators of their educational experience.

[00:37:01] An education system that not just has teacher unions, but real student unions because Students should be able to file grievances against teachers who are committing injustices and infractions against them. Just like How teachers are able to go to a union to file grievance against an administrator or a colleague students have that same right?

[00:37:24] Because guess what? We do this work or we should be doing this work for them. And because of them. So why not have student unions? I would love to see that. not a student council.

[00:37:41] a real union where they have decision making power. And a form of executive presence when it comes to town hall meetings, meetings that deal with budgets, meetings that deal with things that will directly impact their quality of learning. I want to see that.

[00:38:01] I want to see an education systemthat is not anti black. mean,an education system that embraces everybody for who they are. they’re not asking questions about why they Look like this, why they speak like this, why their hair is the way it is why they’re as dark as they are.

[00:38:24] Just accept them for who they are, accept them as they come, Let people come as they are so they can learn just like

[00:38:33] So those are just a few thoughts that come to my mind when I think about this re imagination of our education systems,

[00:38:39] Within the States but other parts of the globe.

[00:38:41] Brittney Carey (She/Her): Yes. The idea of having a student union That’s a functioning part of the school community where students actually have voice and like you said, not the illusion of voice like they actually have voice and can affect change and that is what justice is that is what power is right is when you have the ability to see change and make change and advocate for that.

[00:39:05] Think of the world we could have if all students got to be a part of something like that. If they got to see the effect of being part of a collective and being able to advocate for each other and what they want and need

[00:39:16] Just imagine the beauty that you would have. we know that in the United States, and I’m sure in other parts of the world too, education is still very highly segregated, if you have money to go to, a more elite school with more resources you can do that.

[00:39:31] children who live below the poverty line don’t really get that choice. you go to the school next to you, whatever that is. It creates deep segregation and divides amongst students. the haves and the have nots. Oftentimes you see students who are part of those more elite schools, they have more freedom, choice, and their voice means something and their voice is can affect change in their communities, whereas in schools that don’t have as much funding, you don’t see the freedom, you don’t see those things, and they operate essentially as, mini prisons, essentially, and it is in this highly segregated context, see these inequities and you see it, and right, I’m imagining, again, that freedom dreaming, I’m imagining those students who everyone now has access to being able to file their grievances to say, this isn’t working for me.

[00:40:17] This is how I want to see the education system work. And they’re actually an active participant in that. I’ve always seen education as something that is

[00:40:24] very dynamic. everyone gets to be a part of it. It is not something that just happens to you, similar to development.

[00:40:30] Your development isn’t something that just happens to you. You are an active part of your own development and the people around you are an active part of your own development. And so I love that. That’s something that’s making my brain all happy right now.

[00:40:42] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : Yes.

[00:40:44] Brittney Carey (She/Her): S

Where to Find More from Kwame

[00:40:44] Brittney Carey (She/Her): o where can my audience find you? I know you’ve mentioned, you have your books. Where can my audience find you if they’re interested in

[00:40:49] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : Sure. They can go to my main website, which is identity talk four numeral four educators dot com They’ll learn more about my services and offerings You’ll be able to find my podcast, there As well as the different books I’ve written, including my newest one, learn to relearn support identity in a culturally affirming classroom.

[00:41:14] It is out right now, 20 percent off at all book retailers. this is a good holiday read to engage in during your winter break. If you’re stateside and even if you’re in an international school and you’re on holiday, you could also access it So make sure you do that. if you’re still unsure about whether you want to get a copy, you could go to the book’s website, which is learning two numeral, two relearn.

[00:41:43] com. you’ll be able to get more of an overview of what the book’s about.

[00:41:48] Brittney Carey (She/Her): And I’ll put all of that in my show notes below. So if you’re curious on checking out the book or you’re curious to checking out any of the other beautiful things that Kwame is a part of, you can check that out right.

[00:41:57] there. Kwame, I want to thank you so much for joining me and sharing all of this beautiful knowledge.

[00:42:02] This conversation has been heartwarming and enlightening, especially the way that you’ve reimagined education. I love that. I’m manifesting that into reality as we speak.

[00:42:13] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : thank you.

[00:42:14] And

[00:42:14] you, Brittney, for having me. Once again it’s always good to be on the other side Being able to share my story and have good dialogue with people who are also in this space. So I appreciate you

[00:42:25] Brittney Carey (She/Her): Yeah. I love this podcast for that very reason. I just get to talk to really cool people doing amazing things out there in the world, elevating their stories so other people can hear this too.

[00:42:34] I want to thank you so much for joining me and being here and all the great work you do.

[00:42:37]

[00:42:37] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : Yes, and then for those who are listening Please make sure after you listen to not just this episode but past episodes of the conscious pathways podcast leave a review on Apple podcast as a podcaster we value those reviews We love the affirmations and DMS. Those are great, but we need to put those reviews in these official platforms so other people can know how amazing these platforms are, especially ones featuring black women.

[00:43:09] Make sure y’all support Brittney. And once again, I appreciate you for having me on and I hope we can do this again.

[00:43:15] Brittney Carey (She/Her): Absolutely. You’re always welcome. You’re a friend of the pod now. So you’re always welcome to come on and thank you. Please leave a rating or review. It does help. Thank you.

[00:43:25] Kwame Sarfo-Mensah (He/Him) : Alright.

Final Thoughts and Takeaways

[00:43:27] Brittney Carey (She/Her): Thank you so much for listening to conscious pathways. I want to know what your biggest takeaway from this conversation with Kwame was. There was so many beautiful takeaways and points. , I loved hearing , his feedback on the importance of culturally rich classrooms and how it’s a not. Another task that it’s actually just a way of being, it’s a way. It is the way we show up in our classroom.

[00:43:56] It’s not a checkbox, , it is our work, the work that we do, and there’s a lot of inner pole inner work and a lot of inner components that go into making our work a reality. But I want to know what your takeaway was. What’s something that you learned in this episode.

[00:44:10] What questions do you have if you’re on YouTube, put those in the comments and I will reply to them. Don’t forget to subscribe to my newsletter. You can know when my conscious community will be launching.

[00:44:21] And until then navigate your conscious journey with courage in kindness. And I’ll see you there from our transformative conversations.

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