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In this powerful episode of Conscious Pathway, host Brittney Carey sits down with Ijumaa Jordan, a trailblazer in early childhood education and a dedicated advocate for anti-bias learning environments. With over 30 years in the field, Ijumaa brings a wealth of experience and insight as they explore the often-overlooked intersection of early education and social justice.
Together, Brittney and Ijumaa dive into a transformative discussion on police-free early childhood education (ECE), a radical concept challenging traditional views of authority in classrooms. They discuss how restorative justice practices can be implemented in ECE settings, offering alternatives to typical disciplinary measures.
Key themes in this episode include:
- Power Dynamics in Play: How educators can be mindful of power imbalances in children’s play and promote equity from an early age.
- Educator Ethics and Accountability: Ijumaa shares the ethical responsibilities that educators hold in creating safe, inclusive spaces for all children.
- Restorative Justice and Community Support: Practical ways to incorporate community-centered, restorative approaches in early childhood education.
- Challenging Institutional Norms: The importance of questioning long-standing institutional norms to build culturally responsive and anti-bias educational environments.
This episode is a must-listen for teachers, parents, and policymakers looking to understand and implement socially conscious practices in early childhood settings. Tune in to learn how small shifts in perspective and practice can create transformative impacts for young learners.
Subscribe to Conscious Pathway for more inspiring conversations at the intersection of education and social justice, and connect with us on Instagram, LinkedIn, or TikTok to continue the conversation.
Connect with Ijumaa:
Website: https://www.ijumaajordan.com/
Police free in ECE Community: https://www.ijumaajordan.com/join-police-free-ece
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ijumaaj/
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Conscious Pathways is the leading education consulting agency dedicated to supporting educators, parents, and supportive adults with the tools to build a brighter future together starting with early childhood.
A conscious approach to education views students as active participants in their learning rather than recipients of knowledge. Conscious Pathways is a mindful approach to reimagining education for social equity, justice, and innovation.
Transcript
[00:00:00] Brittney: Hello, and welcome to conscious pathway. So podcast where we explore the intersection of education and social justice through transformative conversations. I am your host, Brittney. And as always, I am so excited for you to be joining me on this journey. This week, I am joined by a fantastic guest. Ijumaa Jordan.
Ijumaa has such a wealth of knowledge.
She’s been an educator for over 30 years. She has been in pretty much every realm within early education that you could possibly be from in the classroom to out of the classroom admin positions.
Ijumaa is a consultant and educator, and really what stood out to me when I was looking through just the breadth of her work was her concept of police free and ECE. That really stood out to me.
As an early childhood educator I’ve worked with. Many students across different backgrounds. And one thing generally remains the same as that. Kids are pretty curious about power dynamics. They’re curious about. Who has power? . Who’s good. Who’s bad. And they’re really curious about investigating this through their play.
So you’ll often see young children playing kind of this cops and robbers, or I’m the superhero or I’m the cop I’m going to put away the bad guys. And. I always found myself a little. I suppose uncomfortable with these dynamics, not necessarily with the children themselves. I know that they are. They are trying out different facades and they’re trying out different personalities and characteristics.
So not necessarily within them, because I know what’s developmentally appropriate for them to be curious about these topics. But I, as an educator, never really knew how to address these conversations. In a way that. Honored their development and also in a way that proposed. Different concepts or different ideas. I know my approach was always to just ask more questions.
I think that’s my general approach to most things in life is to ask more questions and to get a little bit more clear and help other people to. To consider different perspectives.
And so I think it’s a really fascinating idea, too. To take this concept that kids are already grappling with that they’re already asking questions about, they’re already acting this out in their play about power dynamics and who has power and what that looks like. And there are ways that we can address that in the early learning community.
But for the longest time, I felt a little lost when it came to this, because I didn’t know how to address it in a way that was sensitive and collected. Because not everyone has positive associations with the police. And especially sometimes you’ll have, community visitors.
And it wasn’t really, until I started learning about restorative justice and social justice and different ways of just approaching that I started to become a little bit more clear in my practice with it.I wish I had someone like Ijumaa to Walk me through how I can handle these conversations.
It’s still a, beBe understanding of everyone’s experiences and everyone’s lived experience and everyone’s reality.
Ijumaa throughout this conversation really drives home. The idea that it is as educators and people who work with young children and people who work with children or students in general. It is our ethical responsibility to do no harm, similar to how the Hippocratic oath is the guiding force for medical professionals to do no harm and to support all people. That is our guiding force in education as well. We want to reduce harm.
We want to do no harm. We want to increase equity. We want to increase access. And so that’s something that I have been thinking about every day since this conversation.
And I cannot wait to share this conversation with you.
So let’s hop into it.
[00:04:09] Ijumaa Jordan: Ijumaa Jordan She/her [00:07]
[00:04:13] Brittney: joined by Ijumaa Jordan. Thank you so much for joining me today.
[00:04:16] Ijumaa Jordan: You’re welcome. Hello, good morning, good evening, good afternoon.
[00:04:20] Brittney: Exactly. I never know where people are. Yeah, I don’t know where people are listening. Am I your morning podcast? Am I your afternoon podcast? Am I your late night podcast? Do people do that? I don’t know.
[00:04:31] Ijumaa Jordan: For somebody, sometimes it is.
[00:04:34] Brittney: Exactly. Exactly. I am so excited to have you joining me. Actually one of my close friends had suggested I reach out and I was looking through all your stuff and I was like, Ooh, this is amazing. I need to get her on the podcast.
[00:04:48] Ijumaa Jordan: What’s
thank you, Julia, for the suggestion. Before we get into all the beautiful and amazing things that you do and bring to the world, tell me a little bit about your journey into education. I’ve been in early education for over I think 35 years now. had my first introduction in being assistant in school-age programs. I was a camp counselor in high school.
And like I would babysit, that’s how I made my extra money, babysitting, taking care of my siblings and other people’s children. And then, people were like, you should become a teacher. so in high school, I shadowed elementary school teachers This isn’t me. Like it was the 80s, early 90s, and teachers back in the day, it was a lot more cute sweaters and just like a vibe that like, I don’t know, like a lot of canned curriculum. I love working with children, I love teaching, but I don’t know if this is for me.
And then I got a job after a year of working at a camp counselor. I was recommended to be an assistant at a preschool. So I was an open or infant toddler teacher. So I welcomed the babies in school in the morning and I worked in the office as admin. And that was the start.
And so I worked almost every job you can in ECE. So I’ve been an assistant teacher, I’ve been a lead teacher, mentor teacher. In ECE we team teach so there’s always multiple teachers. And I actually like that, I like the collaboration of that
I’ve worked preschool. And I’ve worked pre-K. And I’ve worked mixed age group. So I’ve done all the ages.
[00:06:50] Brittney: really done it
[00:06:51] Ijumaa Jordan: And so now I’m a consultant. I use all that experience.
into working with other educators with particular focus on leadership. I’m mainly a content expert.
and racial justice, social justice, and play-based, but you know always have my love for play-based curriculum and progressive education in general.
[00:07:21] Brittney: you’ve been in every area that one could be within early childhood. You really have a good purview of what everyone’s going through and what everyone’s experiencing in that, which is really incredible.
Especially that focus on anti racism and abolition and, this critical thought within early childhood. I think it’s a conversation that’s generally missing in education in general, but specifically for early childhood. It’s, something that is very neglected in part of our field.
That thought that kids don’t need to be exposed to these types of topics or they don’t need that. They’re just little kids. They don’t want to have these conversations. And we know that it starts early, like these conversations, the questions they’re asking, the representation, all of these things start so early in their development, right?
This is where they’re learning about how the world works, they’re learning about, how they fit into the world how they perceive others and how others perceive them, right? So there’s so much that’s going on in their little minds. And so I love, seeing more people out there in the consulting field which is also what I do, but it’s beautiful to see that there’s more people out there who are centering this conversation, especially when we’re talking about, decolonization, and all those different things.
It’s very important. And you had, you mentioned play based. How do those two topics go hand in hand when we talk about anti racist work and we’re talking about community? How does that go hand in hand with play based learning?
in my mind where the connection is that play is a right of children, right? It’s the right of childhood. And so as the adults in their lives, it’s our responsibility to make sure that happens, that it’s system to their development. So since it’s a right, that goes. into and is integrated and thinking about who has access to that and your race and your gender and your socioeconomic status impacts if you’re able to play and what you get to play with, what’s available to you. When people think about play-based curriculum for children, they think about preschools say that they’re play-based, they think of them as white schools. Yeah, you hear that a lot. Oh that’s for the white kids. Gentle parenting, that’s for the white parents. Those play based schools, like that’s for the white kids. I was talking in a previous episode with Dr.
Toutant and, we were talking about DEI work and how important this is and how important it is to, one, take care of our DEI practitioners, but also, that this work is for everyone. And we talked about especially how, as, Black people, Black and brown people, or BIPOC people, in order for us to show up in the world, we have to be this, phenomenal being we have to exceed and we have to go above and beyond and that you know feeds into higher education But it also is prevalent in early childhood education like you need to be the best and the brightest and you need to be the top of your class and you do all Those types of things and so you know when we’re thinking about spaces for children, you know Obviously with early childhood, there’s this, voice and choice disparity, right?
So if you have the money to pay for these really expensive schools the ones that are play based or Montessori or any of those other ones, like if you have the money to pay for it, awesome. If you don’t, your options are usually, Head Start, state run preschools family, friend, and neighbors, right?
And so those are the options that you just have available to you. And we’re talking about, play based preschools, Especially for the BIPOC community, that’s not something that we’re thinking about. No, they need to be academically rigorous. They need to know how to read. They need to know how to spell.
But us as practitioners, we know that, their play is their learning. That’s how they learn. That’s how they explore. That’s how these things seep into their mind and their conscious and their psyche.
What’s the standard, right? Because we want our children to be educated is very important. Being descended from people who were enslaved in America, knowing that ancestors were killed or punished.
learning to read and having an education and knowing not even far off ancestors, just like a generation. The things that my mom was through, the things that my grandmother, my aunts, my cousins, they went through just to have an education, makes it key and important. And so the education that I’ve invested in and my family has supported me to have, knowing that again, play is a right, is essential to children’s development. So why would I want less for black children? gonna let that sit and marinate for a second.
[00:11:58] Ijumaa Jordan: And so if that’s the key for development, then I want them to have it in a way that’s culturally responsive. That’s actually going to support their cognitive development,
[00:12:14] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:12:19] Ijumaa Jordan: instruction with reading, writing.
math concepts and the thing that people are most on are the things that aren’t actually developmentally appropriate yet. Right? Children should be illiterate. And learning to read happens between four, that’s like the earliest and that’s a very smart amount, and then around nine and ten. So that’s a huge developmental span. And so to expect children that everybody should be reading
in kindergarten and first grade isn’t appropriate, isn’t a standard that we should be holding children to. And the reason why that standard is because we can make money off of that fear.
That fear of, they’ll be illiterate, won’t learn to read and write, they’ll be behind, but the standards are inappropriate.
[00:13:27] Brittney: Yes,
[00:13:29] Ijumaa Jordan: If we want children to be ready for that like school readiness, I don’t believe that children should be ready, that schools should be ready for children, but that’s the language that we use, so I’m gonna use that language. And so if we want children to read, then we need to have one be an example. Are we readers?
Are we reading with children? Are we showing them that this is fun and exciting? do they see us reading for joy and for fun or just for lessons? Because if you want to be a reader, you have to do it for fun. It has to be an enjoyable experience or your brain won’t allow you to even learn that. Cause it won’t learn in stress.
So we are reading to babies, having babies on our lap and reading to them and enjoying that and like doing silly voices and like they get to turn the page and not on the board. But right there, having experience of warmth and fun. And if you grow up in that and you’re held in that, then yeah, you’re going to want to read. And you’re going to want to do it yourself, right?
Cause three and four year olds always like pretending to read. That’s why they want to hear the same book over and over again. And then you’ll see them in the book corner or on their mat, like telling the story, holding the book up, right? That’s what you want to see.
[00:15:08] Brittney: Yes.
[00:15:09] Ijumaa Jordan: And then when you say we’re going to have reading less. They’re like, sign me up. I’m ready for this.
[00:15:16] Brittney: Yes. Yes. Because reading isn’t something that our brains can do. Do naturally our brains are not developed to for written word We’ve always been developed for a kind of spoken word and visual things and things like that So learning to read is really counterintuitive to what our brains do with information automatically So you’re having to retrain your brain to do a thing anyways And then we’re asking this of very young children to do this very hard thing and so when people talk to me about early literacy, and it’s something, I’m based in California, so it’s something that we’ve been talking about, especially with the expansion of TK to all four year olds, and, they’re trying to now expand it to all three year olds, and that’s a situation.
about literacy, they’re like in early childhood, like, how are preparing them for reading and early literacy? And it’s my job in early childhood education when it comes to that is to build and foster that love of learning, is to build that intrigue with reading
Are we doing this in a way where it’s not stressful, it’s comforting, they’re involved in the process, they want to be involved in that process, right? If I follow a child from, birth all the way up to, five years old before they go off to kindergarten, I want them to have literacy experiences that are meaningful, that are impactful, that are culturally relevant, that are sustaining, that are responsive to what they feel, what their community is going through, what they see outside of that classroom.
I want to foster those types of experiences. I do not care about the end of, again, a child who’s five years old going into kindergarten. I could care less if they know what sight words are. I’m not trying to teach them sight words. In fact, I don’t even believe in sight words.
But, I could care less about that. But are they interested in print concepts? We have the California Learning Preschool Foundations and Frameworks. And what I do like about that is when it does talk about early literacy and the stages that it goes through, right? It’s just, are they interested in print concepts?
When they’re holding a book, are they holding it the right way? But by a certain age, right? It’s not upside down, they’re not trying to read it horizontally, right?
[00:17:18] Ijumaa Jordan: If you’re watching children, you’ll see that.
What we’re also looking for is they know the orientation. Like they know that we start reading here, even if they can’t read, if they already know that you start looking at the words right here and you go across, you start here, you go across. Those are the actual skills that they need to read. And that’s what we’re here for.
[00:17:41] Brittney: Yes.
[00:17:42] Ijumaa Jordan: And so everything that you said, like that’s science.
if we shift gears a little bit, so part of your work also goes into, as you mentioned, that restorative justice aspect of it and rethinkingcommunity helpers and instituting that restorative justice practices. Can you talk a little bit about, what inspired you to talk about this and, what your work around this looks like? So the story that I tell… is that I was working at a center and I was a teacher and we had a police visit.
[00:18:17] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:18:18] Ijumaa Jordan: And one of the little girls was like, I don’t want to go. And they were like really afraid And so I was like trying to figure out what’s going on because they weren’t usually like that. Everybody likes to go, it’s a special thing. Everybody wants to go do it. long story short has seen someone that she loves be arrested and.
And it was very
[00:18:42] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:18:44] Ijumaa Jordan: for her because they took them away. They went to jail. And the police were mean. They were pushing and shoving and threw them on the ground. And so it makes sense that,
[00:18:58] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:18:59] Ijumaa Jordan: no, why would I want? Am I being arrested? Why would I want to go see the police officer?
And my director was not happy with that. at the school, it primarily black and brown children. And she was white. And I bring that up because what she said was that like these children need to know about, like the police and know about authority.
[00:19:31] Brittney: The implication of that,
[00:19:35] Ijumaa Jordan: Yeah. So I didn’t stay there that long after that.
[00:19:40] Brittney: I wonder why
But that is my origin story. that was. The arc
[00:19:50] Ijumaa Jordan: people online ask, what radicalized you? That’s what did it, right? That made me rethink this very prominent practice and this idea that police or community help.
So that had just been quietly my practice. I would take the police out of the little lakeshore and block people. And then if somebody would ask for me, then we’d have a little conversation about
[00:20:19] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:20:19] Ijumaa Jordan: I just did that in my classroom. And then as a consultant, and when the uprising happens, it became another opportunity to talk about that, right? Because people were like, how do I talk to children about police brutality? And so I was like, the way I’ve been talking about it is questioning police as community help.
[00:20:47] Brittney: Because that’s why people are like, no, because it was assumed virtue. Used to use an academic term, assumed virtue.
[00:20:55] Ijumaa Jordan: And we assign them virtue. But especially if you’re black and brown, if you’re queer, if you’re not white,
Male, affluent,
[00:21:09] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:21:09] Ijumaa Jordan: you don’t have a good relationship with the police. And maybe not even you personally, probably not in your community.
[00:21:17] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:21:18] Ijumaa Jordan: That has encountered the police. You’ve encountered the justice system. You know about alternative economies because you can’t get work. And so that kind of started up again, requests to start talking about that. that has become one of my focuses. And I do that work. Right now with a group of educators and people that work in ECE directors resource and referral people and I have a group called Police Free in ECE. So
I was wondering as you started telling the story what Year what time frame that original incident happened. Because as you mentioned, we’ve had a couple of. Reckonings throughout the last couple years last 10 plus years.
[00:22:08] Brittney: Obviously, it’s an issue that’s been ongoing that kind of predates this it wasn’t like police brutality just suddenly popped up in the 2010s, right? It’s been going on for a while probably since the very inception of the police in general that’s why they came into existence right during slavery and the origins of
[00:22:27] Ijumaa Jordan: patrols
[00:22:28] Brittney: Yes,
[00:22:29] Ijumaa Jordan: of policing in America.
[00:22:45] Brittney: the case for everybody, right? You can be completely, complacent and completely agreeable and still have police brutality, done against you and your body.
So it doesn’t necessarily matter that. And then, you look at the bodies and the people who are persistently subjected to this, right? If you’re a black or brown person, someone, either you’ve experienced police brutality, or someone close to you that’s experienced police brutality.
And it’s something that is very prevalent in our communities and it’s difficult, right? And so when we’re having conversations with children, I know I always felt really uncomfortable when I would see the little Lakeshore police people, and it’s always a little white police officer. And just thinking about what is this saying?
What message am I sending to children? And, when it goes into play, we know that especially young children, and particularly young boys, seem very interested in this concept of power dynamics. You’ll see in their play more often, they’ll either emulate police officers, or superheroes, or they’re really grappling with this idea of good versus bad good versus evil, right?
They’re really grappling with this concept, and they’re Part of the way that they are processing that is through their play, right? Which kind of goes back to what we were initially talking about, is Play
[00:24:00] Ijumaa Jordan: It’s interconnected,
[00:24:01] Brittney: It’s all connected!
not separate. Mmhmm.
[00:24:05] Ijumaa Jordan: in what we should be paying attention to.
They’re not too young because the reality is that in America, in our context, you’re born into a white dominant society where white supremacy, the way dominant culture acts, that’s what you’re born into. So you’re already experiencing that. You’re trying to make sense of it.
[00:24:30] Brittney: Yes.
[00:24:31] Ijumaa Jordan: you start to pay attention some people have power and some people don’t. and they’re usually the people that are powerful.
[00:24:39] Brittney: Yeah.
These are seem to be the people that you’re like and so then they think, am I like that? if I’m not like that, then am I bad? Yeah.
[00:24:48] Ijumaa Jordan: or maybe I’m not bad because I’m wonderful. But maybe the other people that look like me, maybe they’re
[00:24:54] Brittney: Yep.
[00:24:55] Ijumaa Jordan: and they deserve it. So there’s lots of things that come out, the thought process that comes out and it’s a reflection of our society. It’s a reflection of what’s already happening in our communities and in their lives and in their families. Is this the message I want them to hold onto and think that this is correct? And if the answer is no and the answer should be no with these things, then it’s our job and our responsibility to disrupt that.
Yeah. And to ask those questions, not only of ourselves, but just to involve the students in that questioning, it’s not something that you always have to grapple with yourself on your own. Yes, there’s a big part of that. That is your own internal reflection and your own inner biases that you need to, there is an internal work.
[00:25:44] Brittney: These ideas, right? And it always starts with questions, asking them, what do you know about this?
What questions do you have about this? What does it look like?
[00:25:53] Ijumaa Jordan: And maybe the relationship that I would have with children is that they know that like I’m observing cause I’m writing little notes and I’m reading them notes, right? And I’m like taking pictures and I’m documenting. this caught my attention. And I’m wondering if that’s like what you’re thinking.
[00:26:12] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:26:14] Ijumaa Jordan: Yeah, and then they’ll tell you. Because sometimes people… don’t know what to do if they’re not directly teaching.
[00:26:21] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:26:21] Ijumaa Jordan: what we’re supposed to do.
[00:26:24] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:26:26] Ijumaa Jordan: actually have discussions and engage and have quality questions. Like one of the sayings is, don’t ask children questions you already know the answers to. And so when we do that, And that’s to reflect when we are like, what color is this?
[00:26:43] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:26:45] Ijumaa Jordan: What letter is this? That’s not actually teaching. Because children are like, you don’t know. And a lot of people like, you just need that one kid to say that to you. why are you asking me? You don’t know? Your mommy didn’t teach
[00:27:04] Brittney:
[00:27:04] Ijumaa Jordan: you that?
have real curiosity behind it. And that only happens if we’re really observing, if we’re not focused just on ourselves trying to teach and be the teacher.
[00:27:15] Brittney: Yeah. It’s a transition from being, from what we traditionally have been taught to think that teaching is, which is standing in front of the classroom, and you’re bestowing upon them all of the knowledge that you have. You’re like, yes, I’m the all being, all seeing, knowing teacher of omnipotence, right?
and transitioning from that vision of what teaching looks like to more of a facilitator role, where I’m hand in hand with you as we’re learning this together, and I want to see what your questions are. I want to understand where you are in terms of where you’re learning this and where you want to go.
And I’m just facilitating that learning process with you. I am not, my job is not to bestow upon you with all of this knowledge. I want you to be curious. I want you to ask questions. I want you to think critically about information. Don’t just trust me because I’m here, right? I want you to think critically about this information and that’s, the society that I want to live in.
[00:28:05] Ijumaa Jordan: Thinking about what your role is and what you actually want for children, what’s the message is. Like why are you here? If you’re here just cause like you can boss people around,
[00:28:17] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:28:18] Ijumaa Jordan: then like this isn’t the place
If you’re curious and interested in supporting development.
[00:28:24] Brittney: Yeah.
And to love and care about the children in your community, this is the place for It is. And this has me thinking again. Connecting back to a point that you brought up earlier I was thinking about this book by Dr. Casey Stockstill,
She was talking about segregation in preschool and how it’s still very prevalent and, Head Start is going to be for lower income families. Oftentimes, you’re going to see a lot of black and brown children as the majority of the population of Head Start classrooms, and, as we were saying before, there’s that voice and choice, and so with the privately funded preschools, it’s going to be families who have quite a bit of money, who can pay 20 grand plus a year for it.
Their child’s preschool tuition, and that’s like for one child. And So you’re gonna see just a difference in socioeconomic status. You’re gonna see differences in culture, ethnicity, race. You’re gonna see all these differences in these two settings. And what’s interesting is when you look at the more kind of federally funded or state funded programs The power dynamics are different.
The questions that, she was observing even at kind of circle time, the language that they used, there’s, the private preschool,group time,at the Head Start, the one that she specifically was observing at, use it as work time.
It was like the vocabulary that they use oh, we’re gonna go do our work time. And the power dynamics were just very different. There were certain things, in the Head Starts, they couldn’t celebrate certain holidays, they couldn’t use certain languages, they couldn’t, and it was just, there was so much rigidity in their day to day practices.
And it just has to be reflecting on this type of practice of, when we only provide students from certain background, we only provide them with care that looks like power over, and that’s the only kind of thing that they’re seeing. What are we actually communicating to them about their power?
What are we actually communicating to them about their ability, right? When they don’t have very much like fluidity and structure into their day, and everything is decided for them. How does that help them to then question these types of practices to have this type of mindset, whereas we have the more private preschool, they don’t have a government entity holding that over them at any time of the day.
So there’s a lot more flexibility in their schedule and their day. I’ve had the pleasure of working for pretty much almost every school. Avenue and early childhood similar to you as well. So I’ve worked in a family child care. I’ve worked in state funded Head starts. I’ve worked for privately funded free schools and in all of those, you know I personally preferred working in the privately funded ones just because I had so much freedom in what I could do I could create my curriculum.
I could celebrate the holidays all the different things I just had the freedom And movement to be able to do that where I didn’t have that same flexibility in the state funded schools that I had worked in.
And this is thinking, melding this into this current conversation and what we’ve been talking about throughout this conversation. if there are schools out there or their teachers or leaders who are listening to this and are curious about, how do we start these conversations about power, privilege, and oppression with young children, specifically going into Our Place community helpers and questioning this where do you think they can start with this?
Filter myself. Go on, say it.
[00:31:38] Ijumaa Jordan: meeting right now and I want to make a good impression. So one, don’t get fired and then email me and I’ll have a job, can you find me a job?
Thing that I advise is people to get in community.
Yeah. This isn’t an individual work for you to do.
Is for us to do.
yeah,
And sometimes you might need coaching. And in that community, like getting support and like thinking about what strategically you’re going to do. So you’re like, hey, I do want to think about this. And it might not be great to just go into school on Monday and take all of that stuff out, take, get those puzzles and X out. Maybe that’s not the first step. So maybe the first step is to do as Britney’s, do some self-reflection and be clear about what’s the message. and also do some investigation about what actually, what’s the rule? And you also have to think about what’s called fidelity to the curriculum. So there’s always places where you can like, this isn’t aligned with our values. So if we’re taking on abolitionist work, anti-oppression work, our ethical responsibility to do no harm. Oppression harms everyone and especially harms children because they have the least amount of power. Maybe you bring it to your work time and I was listening to this lady and she was talking about that police aren’t always community helpers because sometimes and maybe you have a story when you were young, maybe you have a story, know, whatever is appropriate to tell. And so I want to talk to you.
to you, what do you know about? and start to investigate and tell those stories and figure out like, yeah, like lots of people do think that like police are good people. And especially like what if like your mom, your uncle, your favorite uncle in their police. And this isn’t about just like the individual person. This is about something that’s called systemic. It’s systemic. That means that it’s a system.
[00:34:11] Brittney: And so at school, if you do something wrong, do you go to jail? Do I come and snatch you up and put you over here and say, sit there. And if I did do that, like how would you feel? Would that be right? Yeah. But what can we do? If someone makes a mistake, what should we do? feels so good in my soul. My soul felt that.
[00:34:38] Ijumaa Jordan: So those are the conversations that I’ve had with children. Those are the conversations where I support teachers in having and find your own way in it.
[00:34:51] Brittney: is so important.
[00:34:53] Ijumaa Jordan: And thinking about what’s going to be the resistance because there is going to be some resistance.
[00:34:59] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:35:00] Ijumaa Jordan: But we’re not punks around here, right?
[00:35:03] Brittney: And we’re going to stand up and do the right thing. Because again, it’s our ethical responsibility to do no harm. And believing and just like flatly believing that police are community helpers for some children, that’s a life and death idea. Yeah.
And you don’t know that you could be in danger. That’s actually irresponsible. It is.
[00:35:33] Ijumaa Jordan: it’s our ethical responsibility to do no harm. So that means we have to talk about stuff and not just say stuff because it’s in the curriculum.
[00:35:42] Brittney: And I love that connection to community because that, like that is a key core part of it. If you just go in your classroom tomorrow and just decide, okay, I’m just gonna, I’m going to, like you said, I’m going to take all the figurines out and do all the things like I am now anti racist and we got this.
You’re gonna, you’re gonna have a hard time.
[00:36:01] Ijumaa Jordan: You’re gonna have a hard time either way,
[00:36:03] Brittney: Either way.
[00:36:04] Ijumaa Jordan: for yourself, right?
[00:36:06] Brittney: make it harder, lean on your community and like you said put those values have that values and know for your curriculum for your organization for your school What do you value right?
What is in that handbook that you’re giving out to parents, right? Are you having is it in there that hey, we’re gonna be questioning some hard things, right? So parents know so that you’re not having this whole uprising all of a sudden.
[00:36:26] Ijumaa Jordan: And it might, like they know all the time. Like parents know all the time. And nobody knows until it comes up. Cause that’s just being in relationship with people, right? You don’t know that you didn’t want that until somebody brought it. And that’s okay too. I think also we have to remember that conflict is part of being in relationship and part of being in community.
[00:36:52] Brittney: Yes.
[00:36:54] Ijumaa Jordan: And so again, that’s why we have to know that here’s what we’re doing. Here’s the reason why.
[00:37:03] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:37:05] Ijumaa Jordan: aren’t facts. Like even if they get upset, that’s not the reason not to do it because their feelings do not override our ethical responsibility. And that’s hard because, again, we’re in a white dominant culture with a culture of nicest, especially early childhood educators, with early childhood educators, and trying to avoid conflict. There’s no way we can do that. And so we also have to know how to resolve conflict with our community members. So it’s not like they don’t have a right to be upset and not like it.
We stop. Because when you say,
responsibilities, this is what we do here. And again, this community is a choice. So maybe you didn’t read that far into it. Cause who really reads it? All of us sign off on those papers, but did you read the
[00:38:08] Brittney: that’s true.
[00:38:10] Ijumaa Jordan: And even if it isn’t in here, it’s always implied because my ethics go with me wherever I go.
[00:38:19] Brittney: Yes
And nine times out of 10, like they’re just mad and like you talk about it and you give the reasons. And most of the time they stay. Even if they threaten it I’m going go talk to someone. And we’re going to leave. Okay. Cause you can’t let people hold you. with emotional blackmail manipulate you like that. that’s what it feels like
[00:38:43] Ijumaa Jordan: That’s
[00:38:44] Brittney: I’ve been in, it’s such a beautiful feeling when you stand in your values and you have your community, your school community is behind you. So when someone comes in and says, I don’t like this, I don’t want this or whatever it is that they’re saying, you can stand in your values again, saying you have an ethical responsibility.
This is what our school stands for. This is what we do. I’ve experienced my admin not backing you up and you just feel okay, now I’m just on an island over here. but I’ve experienced it where you have your admin and your school community are behind you and they’re all saying, nope this is what we’re doing.
So take it or leave it, but this is what we’re doing here. And it’s affirming and it feels great. And so again, going back to have a community, lean on that community, and that conflict that comes up, work it out together. Just know that we’re a community. We’re in this together. Our ultimate goal here is the education of these young children, and it’s, yeah, it’s a beautiful experience.
And on that subject, tell me a little bit about how you re imagine education.
[00:39:46] Ijumaa Jordan: re-imagine it just as what we were talking about. Like these are the conversations that we have. These are like who we’re in community with. That even if you are like in a place and your admin doesn’t support you, in this economy you can’t just, again, quit your job. Cause my mom really wants me to tell y’all that. She always reminds me, don’t have, don’t get people fired out here. I’m like, okay, mom. My mom doesn’t want you and probably whoever loves you doesn’t want you just to get fired. But it also means that in your community, helping you like, I need to be in a different place. And there are places out there.
[00:40:31] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:40:32] Ijumaa Jordan: Protect your peace. Do what you gotta do.
And I think like my, when I dream, like I dream about being community, like meeting more people, connecting to more people. just a fair, equitable, and just world.
For everyone that’s playful and full of laughter. Cause I think when you say you do social justice work or DEI or whatever the language is that we don’t want to upset the right about. That for some reason, people think like it’s heavy and not fun and I don’t know that life.
Like I know the joy, like it is, it’s hard and it’s serious and it’s struggle, but I also know the joy and I also know the deep love and care. That you get. You might feel that you’re alone, like your people are out there.
If you’re listening here, like we can be your people.
That’s like in my re-imagining, I try to live that every day.
[00:41:33] Brittney: I connect with that, again, down into my core and my soul and my essence of being, I connect with that your people are out there, whether they’re your colleagues at work, whether they are people outside of your work community, just in your regular community, whether that’s people you find community online with.
We’re out here. We be doing stuff. Find us. You can join our communities.
[00:41:58] Ijumaa Jordan: Yeah.
[00:41:58] Brittney: We’ll welcome you with open arms. As long as we’re willing to learn and be a part of community and our responsibility to know and do better. Come join us,
Yeah. And
[00:42:07] Ijumaa Jordan: makes
[00:42:08] Brittney: Yes.
[00:42:12] Ijumaa Jordan: is because we have shared values. And those shared values grow and heal.
[00:42:21] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:42:23] Ijumaa Jordan: And that’s the foundation.
[00:42:27] Brittney: That’s the foundation. We can’t build a house on shaky foundation.
[00:42:30] Ijumaa Jordan: when I re-imagine, that’s what I want from me. That’s what I built for myself. That’s what I built for my family. That’s what I built for my community. And like it’s for everyone.
[00:42:41] Brittney: And speaking of community, where can my audience find you?
[00:42:47] Ijumaa Jordan: In my house taking a nap.
Yes, I’ll watch TikTok, but I’m not on it because I was like, I just don’t need another. I just don’t need any other social media thing, I have a website. You can reach me through that.
if you want a particular community around abolition, you can join our police free ECE. It’s $3 a month, so I can pay for admin for that and
[00:43:23] Brittney: Yeah.
[00:43:24] Ijumaa Jordan: the page on my website.
And we have teachers and admin and parents to be a part of that. And we meet once a month. And we’re starting to do actions and have workshops. So that’s it. And I also have another anti-racist informal community. it’s mainly.
leaders and college professors. It’s a mutual support group that I also have. So you are interested in that. You can reach out because, and I say because it’s who’s in it because we meet in the middle of the day
[00:44:07] Brittney: Gotcha!
[00:44:08] Ijumaa Jordan: Fridays once a month. And then if you want to hire me or bring me to your school, tell your admin like, hey, I want this lady to coach me. So I can sit in the meeting and tell your director to let you do it.
I will have everything linked in the show notes so you can check out all of those great places. Ijumaa, I really want to thank you so much for joining me and for sharing your knowledge. And thank you for connecting with me.
[00:44:36] Brittney: Yay, thank you for inviting me. Yes, I love it.
[00:44:40] Ijumaa Jordan: Thank you everyone for listening.
[00:44:42] Brittney: Thank you for listening!
Thank you so much for tuning in to Conscious Pathways. I am perpetually astonished by the caliber of guests that I’m able to bring onto this podcast and share with you. Ijumaa just brought so much knowledge and just amazing forethought and story to this conversation. I hope that You learned just as much as I learn.
I feel like every week that I record this podcast, every week that I edit it, I learn something new. I learned something new in the conversations and I learned something new and different while I’m editing and going through the process of looking at the content. I know that for me, something I’m really going to take away from this conversation is how We can really engage in these hard conversations. With our community that it doesn’t have to be just an individual going through this alone while you can do it, it’s going to be a lot harder if you don’t have your school community behind you.
If you don’t have people that you can turn to and count on for guidance and support. So how important it is to find community when you’re doing this work. It’s still going to be hard work whether you’re doing it on your own or you’re doing it with others, but Having someone there who can support you in this journey is so incredibly important
What I really took away from this is that anyone is able to do this work as long as you’re willing to put in the work and try and learn and be open minded. And I hope that’s something that you’re able to take away from this as well.
Reach out on any of my social media platforms. I’m pretty much everywhere these days, Instagram, TikTok the Conscious Pathways to Progress newsletter reach out even on my website. There’s a space where you can put your thoughts as well. I want to hear your thoughts on this conversation.
What did you learn? What information are you taking into your practices moving forward that will help you to really deepen your practice and really understand your students
What strategies are you taking into your practices, your daily work with young people in your lives? What are you taking and how are you implementing this in your life? I’m genuinely curious and I’d love to know. So reach out on any of our socials. I’ll leave the, I’ll leave all of my socials down in the description.
The show notes, so please feel free to reach out there on that note again I want to thank you so much for tuning in to conscious pathways. Don’t forget to like share and follow wherever you get your podcast Please leave a rating or review. It really does help the podcast to grow and find more listeners just like you and Wherever you are on your conscious journey Don’t forget to lead with courage and kindness and I’ll see you next time for more transformative conversations in education.
Bye